If You're Like Most Americans, I Think You're off Your Rocker
Let's face the facts (insert link here to article on big media site that I don't feel like supporting). Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. We don't have to look far to see this happening with our friends and acquaintances. Standing in the Apple store last week (just before buying my first Mac), I overheard a Macbook Pro purchaser tell the salesperson she would take the $1,300 laptop and that she had been pre-approved for financing. Yee ha, cheers to that! (P.S. I bought mine in cash, of course.)
What do you think? Is she loaded but just felt like taking advantage of some extra airline miles? Or is she like most Americans, living paycheck to paycheck, working at a job she can't stand, not having time for those she loves and yet buying things she can't afford on credit?
Most of Us Just Shouldn't Be Broke. Period.
Some of my buddies who, when in discussion over a beer, often talk about their need to not only work over 40 hours every single week, but how they also need to find a job that will pay them more, since they can't "make it" on their current income. It seems as though everyone I know is working over 40 hours a week and still barely scraping by. What gives?
Turning on shows like The Dave Ramsey Show, you'll hear time and time again, stories of people in SERIOUS debt. Not only is this really serious for some, but it seems as though getting into big loads of debt is incredibly normal. Credit cards are opened at cash registers many, many times per day per store. Cars that shouldn't be purchased are purchased every day by people who shouldn't be buying them. Some car dealerships, like one I keep hearing on my local radio station (I won't mention names), are in the business of convincing poor people to buy nicer cars than they can afford, all the while making it sound like a good deed.
I'm not a fan, guys. Saying that you're a good business because you sell expensive cars to people who can't afford them just doesn't make sense to me. Telling people who don't have any money that they "deserve" to drive a nice car is plain irresponsible and bad for society. I can't believe that this crap flies and that businesses like that are successful. It goes to show how messed up things really are.
We Are Completely Out of Control
Our country as a whole is out of control when it comes to spending money. We think we deserve all that money can buy. We think we have the right to drive a nice car, even if we have negative money. We pull out credit cards to pay for Christmas gifts just because money is a little tight right now.
And the worst part? We don't have any frickin' options. Yes, that's right. When you have no money, you have no options. It's simple: Zero Money = Zero Options. Without money, you are stuck and you will do what your master tells you to. That master may be your parents, your children, your boss or your government, but they are your master none-the-less. Honestly, who in the hell wants a master?
So yes, you're darn right, if you are like most Americans, you are off your ever-loving rocker (and out of your ever-loving mind). Spending all the money you make (and more) is just plain idiotic. And that seems to be exactly what most people do.
It's not about clipping coupons so you can get a better deal on things and therefore be able to get a better deal on even more things. It's about giving yourself options in your life. How does it feel having to stay at a job that crushes your soul more and more each day? How does it feel to come home from a dead end job with zero energy to spare? How does it feel to miss your children grow up? How does it feel to hand over all your financials to the government so you can jump on assistance? No thank you to all of that.
My Mission is to Help You Create Independence in Your Life
My mission is to help you create options. I'm in this both to create my own independence and to help you do the same. That's what it's always been about. It's not about being a cheapskate. It's not about clipping coupons. It's about creating options for your life. If you want to stay home with your kids, you CAN make that happen, but probably not while also buying new cars, your dream house and international vacations. Like my friend Paula says, "You can't afford everything, but you can afford anything." If it's independence you want, you CAN afford that. But can you afford the option to leave that soul crushing job while you live in that luxurious house and drive your 2014 SUV? Most likely not.
What's more important to you? Driving a new car, living in your dream house and shopping without reserve all the while being completely stuck, missing your kids grow up and never seeing your family? Or are options, time with those you love, freedom and independence what matter to you? I don't know about you, but I choose the second. That's what it's all about, my friends. I'm doing it all to create my independence and to help you do it too.
Introducing Create My Independence!
In case you didn't notice (although I'm sure you did), I've renamed this website to Create My Independence. Going forward, I'll continue to share my story with you in the same way I always have, but it's time to get laser focused on what the real goal is here. It's not about clipping coupons or being a cheapskate, it's about creating freedom, options and independence in our lives so we don't have to live shitty lives. That's what it's always been about around here and that's not gonna' change. Make sure to stick around so we can help each other make freedom, options and independence happen in all of our lives.
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54 Comments
- Retire Before Dad says:November 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Kraig, I was once in a car dealership and the lady next to me was considering leasing a LandRunner for about $600 a month plus the down payment. Her income was 28k and she had 40k in debt. But she still qualified! When she left I looked at the dealer and he said he had to sell it, it was his job. Even though it was a bad idea. AND, she was married, and didn't even tell her husband. But I am sure she 'deserved' to drive a nice car. I did notice the rebranding. I think its a good change, can't stay young forever! -RBD
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 10:45 AM
RBD, Ouch, that story is painful to read. I've heard many cases of that and that's what really irritates me about businesses that push credit on people like that. It just doesn't seem right to me. I won't support it because I believe it hurts those people. Oh yes, she "deserved" that nice car. We all deserve that nice car, right? Ha! I appreciate the feedback on the name change. I believe it was the right thing to do to clear up any confusion and set the path for where I'm going. And you're right, I'm turning 30 here soon so I'm already moving out of the "young" stage. Take care,
- theFIREstarter says:December 19, 2013 at 4:46 PM
Funny... I was having a discussion with a work colleage today about how he has so little money to get by each month (I know exactly what salary he is on and it's not a bad salary). He has a car on finance, I said why don't you sell that car and get a beater until you get back on your feet to free up a few thousand pounds? He said and I quote: "I Need my car to get to work" I pointed out calmly that a cheaper car would also get him to work. "Yea but I also use it for other things like going to the supermarket etc" I pointed out as calmly as possible that I was fully aware of what a car is used for, but a cheaper car works in exactly the same as a more expensive one. He said "yea but if I get a cheaper car it would just break" I think my head exploded at that point and I gave up. Some people are literally beyond help. It's a real shame!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:December 19, 2013 at 8:32 PM
TFS, Yes, it is tough when people won't accept real help. That is their problem and responsibility though so don't feel bad. You did your best and that's real awesome and important. Take care!
- Peter says:November 19, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Love the re-branding, it really fits your site much better and gets to the root of what you talk about here. Creating financial independence so that you can live the way you want to live!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 10:42 AM
Peter, Right on. Glad you see my vision more clearly with this brand. With me turning 30 in a few months and with the new direction I'm headed, it just made sense to clear up the focus here. Take care,
- Fast Weekly says:November 19, 2013 at 11:25 AM
I like the relaunch Kraig. This seems much more centered on your long term goals and providing long term value to your readers. Congrats! -Bryan
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 11:31 AM
Bryan, Glad you like it. It was an incredibly tough decision, but one that once it was made, it was made. I'm happy so say that I can now get working on my next steps. Talk to you soon, P.S. I haven't forgotten about our last discussion or my "homework". I'll be in touch about it here in a few days.
- Ashley says:November 19, 2013 at 11:27 AM
Love the new site name! It definitely fits your new direction. I did get a bit confused at first thinking I was on the wrong site, though... :) Also, you should make this quote into a bumpersticker: "If you are like most Americans, you are off your ever-loving rocker. Visit createmyindependence.com to learn why." hahah
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Ashley, Sorry about the confusion. I hope it's doesn't confuse people too bad. I'm planning an email to let everyone know. Also, I purposely kept the look and feel identical so that you would all still feel at home here :). Interesting idea about the bumper sticker. I have never thought about doing anything like that. Love it though! Looking forward to our Skype call with Cadie on Friday!
- Michelle says:November 19, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Good job on the re-branding, it is a great idea! It is sad that so many people live paycheck to paycheck and for some reason they think it's normal. The comment above about the person buying an expensive car with only $28K a year in income is sadly true. W used to work as a car salesman and saw it all the time!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 11:37 AM
Michelle, Thanks for the kind words. What's done is done, so it better be good, right? Oh man, isn't that story terribly sad? Ouch, I bet it's like that a lot in that industry and others. I don't know if I could do it. I'd probably get myself fired for complaining about the way we were doing business, which no boss/owner would be okay with. Take care!
- Joe Frey says:November 19, 2013 at 1:28 PM
Kraig, Recently discovered your blog and podcast. Given that I am 36 years old, the new name fits me better! I appreciate your journey as I am now evaluating different steps to take to get closer to some form of independence. Its a bit trickier with 4 kids at home, but living beneath your means can still be done. Joe
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 1:31 PM
Joe, Glad to hear the new name sounds better to you. One of the most important things I learned in the past year was that most of my best readers were older than me. It only made sense to make the change. Oh yes, I'm sure that's trickier. I'll face that here soon as I hope to have a family in my future. I'd love to learn from you on how it's done. Keep in touch,
- Michelle A. says:November 19, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Thanks Kraig! I really love reading your blog and I'm loving your renaming. I'm 31 years old trying to save and plan for my future so in another 30 years I won't have to worry about having enough money saved for retirement. The problem I see with society now is the "entitlement/yolo" factor and the need instant gratification. More people need to read your blog. The advice I give to people who are interested in saving and spending less is always pay yourself first, know exactly where your money is going and actively invest your time in growing your money. I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to your next post!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Michelle, I'm honored to have you as a reader. Thanks for the very kind words. Your strategy sounds like a great plan. I too don't want to have to worry about having money saved for retirement in 30 years. That's why I'm a stickler for saving as much as you can even throughout the most successful times. I agree 100% that the entitlement factor is a problem. The YOLO is there as well, although I tend to somewhat agree with it. It's true, we only do live once. I'd be a hypocrite if I said don't live in the now but instead look only to the future. Here I am building something out of nothing and taking a huge risk to do it. I'm on the path I'm on because I decided that life is short and, of course, YOLO (you only live once). But, I do believe that if you're in good shape from living below your means, then why the heck not live your one life. That's what planning and being smart with money does. It opens up options to actually do things you want to do. When you're spending everything you make, obviously you can't even come close to thinking YOLO. When you're broke, you need to forget that you only live once, because you have no options. Sorry for the rant, but this is obviously a subject very near and dear to my heart. Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. Know that you're always welcome to chime in! Take care,
- November 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM
Good decision in renaming your website it will definitely catch attention. I think everybody wants to achieve financial independence and surely I will follow your blog!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:January 23, 2014 at 8:36 PM
Clarisse, Thanks for the encouraging feedback. I really appreciate it. Yes, I think we all want to build financial independence in our lives. It's such a darn hard thing to do though, and such a challenging journey. Thanks for the support!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 4:58 PM
Noelle, Thanks. Congrats to you on your blog's success lately. It seems to be lighting up! Everyone... go check out Noelle's new blog. It's pretty awesome!! :) Haha. Talk to you soon, Noelle.
- Pura Vida Nick says:November 19, 2013 at 5:30 PM
Kraig, I like the focused mission now. I'm with you - freedom is much more important than the cars, houses, and status symbols. Keep up the good work!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 5:35 PM
Nick, So glad to have you on board. It was great Skyping with you the other day. I feel much more connected with you now, which is why I love Skyping. Like Noelle, who I bragged about just a bit ago, you also have a great blog started. Keep up the great work and let me know what I can do to help you be successful. It's all about freedom, options and independence, right? Heck yeah. Take care,
- writing2reality says:November 19, 2013 at 5:49 PM
Nice work on the new concept and updated branding. I believe that the new focus should prove beneficial to your readers. As for a tough concept, here is a scary one for folks. Back when I worked at a used car dealership, it was the lending to subprime borrowers that really is devastating. These are folks who have poor credit, yet have scraped together a few thousand bucks. They would put $4-8,000 down on a car worth barely more than their down payment. The sales price would be grossed up with fees and other 'charges' such as installing a GPS locator. Of course this doesn't even factor in the 24% interest rate. The dealership would then repo the cars as soon as they got a chance, as it was much more profitable to just keep turning the same vehicle over. Resell the car, keep the massive down payment, and keep on printing money. Sad, but unfortunate reality for some folks out there.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 19, 2013 at 10:55 PM
W2R, Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear your positive thoughts on the move. That's some sad stuff to hear. I know it's going on out there too. Yuck, "selling"/lending cars to people only to repo them as soon as they get the chance is nasty business. Gosh, they make a killing off of people with no money in the first place. There are certain industries out there doing this stuff. Let's just say that I don't agree with it and I believe we should all wake up and stop letting this stuff fly. Oh, and let's help educate others to not fall for scams like buying from these businesses. Take care,
- Brenden says:November 19, 2013 at 6:39 PM
I like the update of the site (although it takes a little longer to type in the address bar!). I agree that it clearly shows what the site is all about. I also think it will be a little more welcoming as I think the word "cheap" can have some negative connotations. I am looking forward to reading more.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 20, 2013 at 7:50 AM
Brenden, Thanks, my friend. Yes, I agree that this name takes longer to type into the address bar. I got so used to typing youngcheapliving.com that it just feels weird typing createmyindependence in now. I'll get used to it though and I hope you will too. You're right, the word cheap can (and often seems to) have negative connotations. Other than the fact that I'm getting older, that was my main reason for changing it. I appreciate your feedback on the change and for the support. Take care,
- krantcents says:November 19, 2013 at 7:33 PM
I think it has to be your own desire for independence or it doesn't work. If you are not self motivated, you will not stick with it.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 20, 2013 at 7:44 AM
KC, You got that right. No one else is going to create independence for you. If you don't want it, it's not going to happen. I doubt that's the problem though. I'm pretty sure we all want it. We just don't know it's an option for ourselves. We are taught that things just aren't that way. It's a terrible mindset to have, in my opinion. Take care,
- Ajaveen says:November 19, 2013 at 8:14 PM
I love the new website! Your article is right on time. Especiallt with the heavy promotion of Black Friday & holiday sales.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 20, 2013 at 7:40 AM
Ajaveen, Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. Yuck, Black Friday and holiday shopping. It's such a trap. I'm already thinking up gift ideas that don't require me to spend money. I think that's what we should all do. Sure, stores may go out of business, but many of them exist because of our foolish spending anyways. Thanks again for stopping by and take care!
- Cadie says:November 19, 2013 at 9:50 PM
Woah, where am I? Just kidding! I popped over from your email (which I loved, by the way. I noticed you started using David's formula, which is super smart!) and love the changes I'm seeing over here. Brave move to change the website name, but I think it was probably wise to do it now since you're in this for the long haul. I'm really loving it! And congrats on the new Mac...I can't wait to hear what you think of it. I've been wanting one for awhile but don't want to spend the money. I'll keeping using my little PC until it dies. :) I see examples like this on a weekly basis, and it makes me sad. Something definitely needs to changes in our education system so kids grow up having an understanding of debt, saving for retirement, and budgeting. If your parents didn't instill these values in you, most people don't have a clue! Thanks for continuing to inspire us all. Talk to you Friday!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 20, 2013 at 7:38 AM
Cadie, Glad to hear you didn't wonder where you were. :) I had a fear that everyone would opt-out of my email list and wonder where the heck they were at. Wow, I'm impressed you knew that was David's strategy right off the bat. You're indeed correct! I remembered seeing his videos on sending emails and I thought they were interesting so I figured I'd give them a try. I did receive an opt-out or two but that could have been due to other reasons. Glad to hear you thought it was kind of fun! The name change was a tough decision, obviously. As you know, I am in it for the long haul, so if it causes short term issues, it's worth it in the long haul. Also, I'm not getting any younger (I'll be 30 in a few months) so the name was getting more and more unfitting. I want the theme here to be about freedom, not about cheapness. Yay, I love the Mac so far! I was all ready to go get a new PC laptop, when I spoke with my good friend Steve Stewart from MoneyPlanSOS.com. He talked me into the Mac, which I was already strongly considering. I think it's going to be great. I have big plans on some video production and can't wait to share them with you when we talk on Friday. Yes, something does have to change. We also need to make sure parents are educated so they can teach their kids. Perhaps that's where you and I come in. That's one of the main reasons I do this here. I want to help others not be broke and stuck. The foundation of that is a mindset change, which is why I almost always talk about mindset, attitude and philosophy. You're welcome. I look forward to chatting on Friday and hearing all about what's going on with you! Talk to you then,
- Shane @ Beating Broke says:November 19, 2013 at 10:23 PM
Love what you've done here, Kraig! Huge strides in the right direction. I look forward to some more great stuff coming!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 20, 2013 at 7:25 AM
Shane, Hey, man. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you're staying warm up in North Dakota. I'm sure not here in Minnesota. I appreciate the positive feedback. I feel really good about the switch. I know we talked about this exact subject a bit down in St. Louis. Obviously, the decision was tough. Thanks again for the support! Take care,
- Wade says:November 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM
Kraig, I love the new blog name. Well done and I think it hits a home run as far as what you are leading your readers to. I am kinda sorta "there". But there are always things pulling you in different directions. Getting there and staying the course are both important. Keep up the great work! Wade
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 25, 2013 at 9:42 AM
Wade, I appreciate the feedback. Glad you think the rebrand hits a home run. Have a great thanksgiving this week, my friend. Take care,
- November 24, 2013 at 9:47 PM
It kills me to see people financing things instead of paying cash. Obviously if that woman could afford to pay cash she would have. I can't think of any case where it's a good idea to get yourself into a payments situation. Love the new re-branding, for a minute I thought I was in the wrong place but then I saw your photo.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 25, 2013 at 9:43 AM
KK, You're in the right place, buddy. I appreciate the feedback. Glad to know my photo is connecting with you, :). Take care,
- Kyle @ Debt Free Diaries says:November 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM
Loving the new focus on your site! I did notice the change in address, and some of the small tweaks to content that is more geared toward using your story to help others. Looking forward to seeing where this site (and your journey) end up in the future!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 26, 2013 at 9:50 AM
Kyle, Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate the feedback and kind words. You're welcome around here anytime and I hope you'll visit often. Take care!
- Vincent Nguyen says:November 26, 2013 at 11:16 PM
Kraig, This article had me nodding the whole way through. My mom makes a great income. In fact, she makes more than anyone else I know (outside of my entrepreneurial circle, that is.) She works a "normal" job at the airport making more than most of my friends' parents combined. Yet she's... In debt. I have no idea how either when she makes such a comfortable salary. Unfortunately, she buys things left and right then stacks them a mile high in every corner of her house. Trying to navigate around without knocking over a box of some sort is nearly impossible. It's very disheartening to see her pursuit of happiness leading her to make decisions like that. I can't even imagine another person who makes far less than my mom does in the exact same situation.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 26, 2013 at 11:18 PM
Vincent, Thanks for the comment. I know the feeling. Many people close to me live like your mom does. They spend all they make and more on stuff that isn't going to make them happy. It's sad to watch, knowing I can't do anything about it. What we can do however is learn from it and make sure to not do it ourselves. Take care and thanks so much for the Tweets and comments!
- Vincent Nguyen says:November 26, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Is there really nothing we can do about it though? I can't imagine me sitting my mom down and having a heart to heart with her. Like me, she is stubborn but even more than I am. I'm not sure how challenging someone's lifestyle would go well.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM
That's exactly why I believe we can't do much of anything about it. We can't control other people's lives, but we can control our own. I often have to channel my frustration with how others are living to myself, making sure I don't slip and do that myself. That helps to keep me focused on living below my means and not envying those with nice things.
- Vincent Nguyen says:November 26, 2013 at 11:25 PM
That's the same way I see it. I'm fortunate enough to have noticed these flaws in the people around me and avoid the same mistakes. Thanks!
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:November 26, 2013 at 11:26 PM
You bet. Obviously, we too have flaws, but just not in those areas :). Take care and I look forward to chatting with you soon.
- Jon@2-copper-coins.com says:November 29, 2013 at 8:52 PM
This is excellent, and I don't think like most Americans. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, I'm working to thrive and create an incredible financial future for myself and my family. I love how you say it straight up "most of us shouldn't be broke period." That is straight up financial truth. Thanks for this post.
- Kelly S. says:April 3, 2014 at 7:03 PM
I live in a rental complex (accommodations from my employer), and there are so many dudes with these oversized pickups that can't even fit in the standard parking space. Why do you have a vehicle like that, and you can't even afford the property to put it on?? You have a vehicle that's almost as big as your home. These are the same people who, on the street or highway, will run up on you and speed around you like they're going to put out a fire, only for me to catch up with them at the next light and I'm only going 30 or 35 mph. They're already driving gas guzzlers.....but then they have to "flex" and try to intimidate other people into wasting their own gas. I never speed up for these fools, I make them go around. I like to get the most out of my tank, the most out of my breaks, and treat my car gently because I want to put a million miles on it. I'm not going to work for my car, this car is going to work FOR ME.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:April 3, 2014 at 9:26 PM
Kelly, Oh yes, gotta love the big trucks that none of us need, but think we need. They may eventually learn, when they figure out how much those vehicles are costing them to own and operate. I love you're attitude and I agree with you. Don't give up your life for your car. I gave up two years working full time for my car. I won't ever do it again. Car's aren't worth your life.
- lena says:April 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM
Half of Americans make below 30k per year. Despite what the media says, most of us are not spending money on unnecessary wants. They don't even make enough money to cover their needs. Cost of living is going up and income has gone down. People have relied on credit b/c income has gone down. Most people I know that are in debt are in debt because of student loans, health care costs, travel costs,child care, housing costs. It's not because they are spending money on luxury goods, they are spending money to try to cover their basic needs with less income and a devalued dollar.
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:April 26, 2014 at 8:31 AM
Hi Lena, Thanks for stopping by. You have some valid points, although I don't believe we're as frugal of a country as you say we are. I believe we think we "deserve" more than we do, and therefore overspend on things we don't need. Of course, you're welcome to disagree with that. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your opposing viewpoint in a respectful manner. Take care,
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:April 26, 2014 at 8:33 AM
By the way, I'm pointing the finger at myself here too. I naturally go and buy luxury things just to feel better about myself. I'm as guilty as anyone else here, although I've woken up and for the most part stopped it.
- lea says:April 26, 2014 at 5:23 PM
Yes, some people do overspend. I'm not denying that. It's a popular perception that Americans are overspending and that's why we have economic hardship. But if we look a bit closer, we can see that the Average American consumer is spending less, way less and this has been the case since 1974, when incomes have started to drop: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-31/wtf-going-real-disposable-income-plummets-most-40-years http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/august-retail-sales-a-tale-of-two-consumers.html/?a=viewall Also, Americans really are becoming more frugal. In fact there's a retail apocalypse happening due to our lack of spending: http://newswatch.us/retail-apocalypse-major-chains-closing-hundreds-of-stores/ Robert Kyosaki said that their will only be two people in this country: the very rich, and the very poor. And he's right. The middle class of the 1950's- 1960s that could afford extra luxury goods like boats will cease to exist. It's happening now. I'm just baffled at how certain people can blame our financial woes on our supposed overspending when exact opposite has been true for years. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/business/the-middle-class-is-steadily-eroding-just-ask-the-business-world.html?_r=0
- Kraig @ Young Cheap Living says:April 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM
Can I ask what solution you propose?
